I am not denying that one iota – however – to become Christ-like does not require a church but fellowship. I seem to recall a strange fact – Jesus’ community was not located in the church of the day – but in the wide open skies of the plains of Israel. There is no true ‘hard and fast’ rule to where one finds their community.

“For instance when you look through the Pauline epistles and see numerous “one another” commands (I believe there are 37 or so of them), how is that to be accomplished outside of fellowship with followers of Jesus Christ?” (Shane)

The gospels also point to ‘one another’ commandments – ie: ‘love your neighor’ or ‘do unto others as you would want done to you’ – on these hang the Torah and Prophets. However, this means the way we treat every single person we meet – whether in a church community or outside that community. Following the ‘one another’ commandments is something we live – in the community and out of it.

I personally like community – however – I do not have one per se (a church one anyways). But I am on the outside of those communities looking in – again – namely due to some doctrinal issues (which would ultimately mean I can have no position of meaning). For me, going to a community like that is quite self-defeating and de-values my abilities. I guess it’s a catch 22 of sorts.

Your experience with people growing spiritually and mine are quite different. I think that we would define growing spiritually quite differently though. To me to grow spiritually is to become more Christ-like. Ultimately it is the work of the Holy Spirit, but is best accomplished in the fellowship with Christ’s bride, the Church. For instance when you look through the Pauline epistles and see numerous “one another” commands (I believe there are 37 or so of them), how is that to be accomplished outside of fellowship with followers of Jesus Christ?

What’s actually odd about that is nobody even answered it – but offered idealistic points of view – which I understand and make all the sense in the world (ie: mandate or maturity).

“the Church is a necessity to spiritual life…While one can be a follower of Christ without being part of a local congregation, I have encountered very few mature ones” (Shane)

I would say I meet quite a few people that have left the church to only find their spirituality has become greater than they even expected – mainly due to the fact the church was close minded on ideas these people were looking into. There are those that leave and find trouble – true – but again – why leave such a great place for something so much less ‘great’? See, that’s the problem – people have reasons and I think the church almost refuses to believe they just might be pushing some people out the door unintentionally.

I also think idealism is good – don’t get me wrong – but it needs to peppered with reality also. Now if everyone has a great church experience – I have no real basis for any single thing I say – but if we do see people dis-satisfied with church – then let’s at least ask ‘why’ and find solutions.

That being said … the Church is a necessity to spiritual life (one could argue physical life when looking at the early church), to community, and to a relationship with God.

Also one other thing – maturity. While one can be a follower of Christ without being part of a local congregation, I have encountered very few mature ones. BSCollins is right that you kind of make my point, though you are coming at it from a different angle as we would, I’m sure, define judging and acceptance differently.

Second, in response to societyvs:

Shane said in his post: “When I find people who are not attracted to the Church (universal, not local), it is usually because they have not been exposed to an authentic Biblical community.”

You perfectly illustrated his point when you said: “What if you love the idea of community but are not accepted in it?”

God calls local churches to love and accept anyone and everyone. Not condone sin, but to care and meet the needs of anyone who comes.

This post makes me think about Heb. 10:25 about “not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together.” That sounds like a biblical mandate to me.

I think you are right that community does mean a lot – I am in full agreeance. I do not attend a church and have not for like 8 years or so – but that doesn’t mean my actions have been the best route to take. At one point I was part of the church community (6 years) and those were very meaningful parts of my life and helped to build me into the person I am today – and I thank a whole community for that.

However, here is my problem with it. What if you love the idea of community but are not accepted in it? What recourse do you take? Accept it or change – even if change means denying the reality of what you know?

I fall into the rock and hard place category here. I love the church community – always have – there is such a greatness to it that can be absolutely useful no matter where the communities are situated. I would also say they can achieve so much and so many wonderful things for so many – and this is glorious to me. I do not hold to orthodox beliefs in general like inerrency, the trinity, atonement, etc. I can be part of the community but I can never lead one – which to me – seems kinda tragic? But this is where I am at – and to deny what I know now is to bascially ‘lie’ to myself just to ‘fit in’…and I ain’t doing the peer pressure thing anymore.

But I am not alone here – I think many people feel this way – like community – but hate the structure. For good cause, at some point the community starts to hold the walls up – At the expense of relationship. For some of us – that’s not only been true – but also is the reason we gave up on the structure in the first place – rules began to mean more than humans. That’s why I have always loved the Acts 2 example – they got the community part right and people want to be there.

Nice little analogy!