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	<title>Comments on: Against Abortion: Ownership</title>
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	<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/</link>
	<description>Stimulating musings from a Jesus-loving caffeine addict.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 06:26:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-918</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 22:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-918</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Against Abortion: God&#8217;s Special Love For&#160;Children&lt;/strong&gt;

While I will continue this series on beyond this post, this is the final post in developing a theological framework for the pro-life position.&#160; I&#8217;ve discussed personhood, God&#8217;s ownership of our bodies, God&#8217;s prerogative based on ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Against Abortion: God&#8217;s Special Love For&nbsp;Children</strong></p>
<p>While I will continue this series on beyond this post, this is the final post in developing a theological framework for the pro-life position.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve discussed personhood, God&#8217;s ownership of our bodies, God&#8217;s prerogative based on &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: societyvs</title>
		<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-779</link>
		<dc:creator>societyvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:53:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-779</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have no problem with defending abortion&quot; (SVS)

I actually meant defending the position of anti-abortion. Sorry if it looked like I would defend abortion - my bad for not typing correctly. 

&quot;“your body is not your own”&quot;

Interesting phrase - and this is the one that makes a difference in plurality. Your body would be the whole of the community church - includes everyone. Abortion, as an issue, is something between 2 people (personal) in my opinion and not directed at the &#039;whole body&#039;. 

Singular in application - then your point is candid. 

However, as I have stated - I would not use a certain verse for my stand on abortion since it is not addressed as an issue one time. I would use the intent of the scriptures and it&#039;s idea about teaching on &#039;life&#039; and not &#039;death&#039; as a focus. And even when &#039;death&#039; is used as a focus in scripture it is usually to dying to the idea that are immoral. I would go about it in that regards - since I think we all know the intent for &#039;life&#039; is in this book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have no problem with defending abortion&#8221; (SVS)</p>
<p>I actually meant defending the position of anti-abortion. Sorry if it looked like I would defend abortion &#8211; my bad for not typing correctly. </p>
<p>&#8220;“your body is not your own”&#8221;</p>
<p>Interesting phrase &#8211; and this is the one that makes a difference in plurality. Your body would be the whole of the community church &#8211; includes everyone. Abortion, as an issue, is something between 2 people (personal) in my opinion and not directed at the &#8216;whole body&#8217;. </p>
<p>Singular in application &#8211; then your point is candid. </p>
<p>However, as I have stated &#8211; I would not use a certain verse for my stand on abortion since it is not addressed as an issue one time. I would use the intent of the scriptures and it&#8217;s idea about teaching on &#8216;life&#8217; and not &#8216;death&#8217; as a focus. And even when &#8216;death&#8217; is used as a focus in scripture it is usually to dying to the idea that are immoral. I would go about it in that regards &#8211; since I think we all know the intent for &#8216;life&#8217; is in this book.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 16:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-774</guid>
		<description>Hey society

Regarding A - my focus is on the &quot;your body is not your own&quot; phrase, not the temple phrase.  I didn&#039;t offer any commentary on it.

Regarding B - I would say both.  You could really ask that with any of the Pauline Epistles because they were written with the intent they would be read to congregations and circulated.  At the same time Paul is addressing individual issues with individual application.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey society</p>
<p>Regarding A &#8211; my focus is on the &#8220;your body is not your own&#8221; phrase, not the temple phrase.  I didn&#8217;t offer any commentary on it.</p>
<p>Regarding B &#8211; I would say both.  You could really ask that with any of the Pauline Epistles because they were written with the intent they would be read to congregations and circulated.  At the same time Paul is addressing individual issues with individual application.</p>
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		<title>By: societyvs</title>
		<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-773</link>
		<dc:creator>societyvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 15:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-773</guid>
		<description>&quot;While we can misuse and pervert our bodies that doesn’t mean we have the right to&quot; (Shane)

Two points:

(a) I agree with you - even by a contextual look at that passage - it could mean the ideas we choose to follow should reflect a deep(er) morality - in that sense - I have no problem with defending abortion. However, I am not sure I would defend with the idea &#039;our bodies are the temple&#039;. 

(b) Steve Scott made a great point to me the other day about these &#039;temple of God&#039; passages - is God addressing a group or a singular person? He points out the &#039;your&#039; in Greek has no mention of being plural or singular - confusing this issue a little more. However, the letter is addressed to a whole community in Corinth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;While we can misuse and pervert our bodies that doesn’t mean we have the right to&#8221; (Shane)</p>
<p>Two points:</p>
<p>(a) I agree with you &#8211; even by a contextual look at that passage &#8211; it could mean the ideas we choose to follow should reflect a deep(er) morality &#8211; in that sense &#8211; I have no problem with defending abortion. However, I am not sure I would defend with the idea &#8216;our bodies are the temple&#8217;. </p>
<p>(b) Steve Scott made a great point to me the other day about these &#8216;temple of God&#8217; passages &#8211; is God addressing a group or a singular person? He points out the &#8216;your&#8217; in Greek has no mention of being plural or singular &#8211; confusing this issue a little more. However, the letter is addressed to a whole community in Corinth.</p>
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		<title>By: Cpt_Starfox</title>
		<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-765</link>
		<dc:creator>Cpt_Starfox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:21:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-765</guid>
		<description>Awesome post!

We are all His, each and every one of us are His. He gave us life and sustains us... He created us and we belong to Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Awesome post!</p>
<p>We are all His, each and every one of us are His. He gave us life and sustains us&#8230; He created us and we belong to Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Shane Vander Hart</title>
		<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-763</link>
		<dc:creator>Shane Vander Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:33:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-763</guid>
		<description>This is one piece of a larger framework that I&#039;m blogging on.   I&#039;m talking ownership... not necessarily abortion, but from that connecting how it relates to abortion.

Let me address the 1 Corinthians 6 passage since that is primarily where your concern lies.  I agree with you that we can not ignore context.  

First regarding ownership in this passage - to address our responsibility.  For several years I rented a home.  It wasn&#039;t mine.  I still had responsibilities related to that home, and I didn&#039;t have the right to misuse the home.  That in a way is what Paul is talking about here, and he is addressing this to Christians - our bodies were paid for with Christ&#039;s blood.  While we can misuse and pervert our bodies that doesn&#039;t mean we have the right to.  We are now stewards of that which Christ has purchased on the cross.

Regarding context Paul is speaking out against sexual immorality because that was a problem that was rampant in the Corinthian church.  When he says in verse 12 - &quot;all things are lawful for me,&quot; (ESV).  He is talking about food - see verse 13.  Some in the Corinthian church were wrongly claiming that since we now are free to eat anything (not bound by Jewish dietary laws) that also applies to sex as well.

We see in verse 13 that there are things that our bodies are clearly not meant for... sexual immorality.  Our body is meant for the Lord, and the Lord for the body, (v.13).

Abortion isn&#039;t addressed because it likely wasn&#039;t an issue within the Corinthian church or that it wasn&#039;t practiced.  I don&#039;t know the history of abortion, but I would suspect that since their medical knowledge wasn&#039;t as advanced it was a greater likihood that infantcide was a greater problem in that society as the means to kill the child before it was born was lacking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one piece of a larger framework that I&#8217;m blogging on.   I&#8217;m talking ownership&#8230; not necessarily abortion, but from that connecting how it relates to abortion.</p>
<p>Let me address the 1 Corinthians 6 passage since that is primarily where your concern lies.  I agree with you that we can not ignore context.  </p>
<p>First regarding ownership in this passage &#8211; to address our responsibility.  For several years I rented a home.  It wasn&#8217;t mine.  I still had responsibilities related to that home, and I didn&#8217;t have the right to misuse the home.  That in a way is what Paul is talking about here, and he is addressing this to Christians &#8211; our bodies were paid for with Christ&#8217;s blood.  While we can misuse and pervert our bodies that doesn&#8217;t mean we have the right to.  We are now stewards of that which Christ has purchased on the cross.</p>
<p>Regarding context Paul is speaking out against sexual immorality because that was a problem that was rampant in the Corinthian church.  When he says in verse 12 &#8211; &#8220;all things are lawful for me,&#8221; (ESV).  He is talking about food &#8211; see verse 13.  Some in the Corinthian church were wrongly claiming that since we now are free to eat anything (not bound by Jewish dietary laws) that also applies to sex as well.</p>
<p>We see in verse 13 that there are things that our bodies are clearly not meant for&#8230; sexual immorality.  Our body is meant for the Lord, and the Lord for the body, (v.13).</p>
<p>Abortion isn&#8217;t addressed because it likely wasn&#8217;t an issue within the Corinthian church or that it wasn&#8217;t practiced.  I don&#8217;t know the history of abortion, but I would suspect that since their medical knowledge wasn&#8217;t as advanced it was a greater likihood that infantcide was a greater problem in that society as the means to kill the child before it was born was lacking.</p>
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		<title>By: societyvs</title>
		<link>http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-759</link>
		<dc:creator>societyvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 17:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://shanevanderhart.wordpress.com/2008/01/28/against-abortion-ownership/#comment-759</guid>
		<description>I think there is only one problem with taking pieces of scripture from various whole texts in the bible - context. 

I am reading a few lines from the 3 scripture pieces you supplied and you are a making a doctrinal stand based on them - ownership of the body. I almost wonder if there is a slight betrayal in doing that - to context of the books/letters of which the verese truly apply to?

The reason I bring this up is because I am looking mainly at the last one - from 1 Corinthians and it seems you are making a leap in a way to say &#039;our bodies are not our own&#039;. Paul seems to be addressing the simple idea of &#039;flee immorality&#039; or don&#039;t use your body for that purpose. I would say if anything - we are sharing ownership with God - responsiblity seems to fall on &#039;us&#039; to &#039;flee immorality&#039; in partnership with God (But the one who JOINS himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him) - I think God has given us the body as a gift (or life). 

Even more odd, Paul never addresses the abortion aspect in the whole of 1 Cor 6 as part of the &#039;immorailty&#039; he is railing against...we have to paste that in if anything - even murder isn&#039;t mentioned - it seems there was problems with adultery, fraud, and other problems in vs. 9. I am thinking Paul might have addressed abortion if it existed - however he does not address it. 

The real problem with making this statement &#039;Our bodies are not our own?&#039; in regards to 1 Cor 6 is it can be used for about anything one chooses. I have heard this also used in regards to liking something too much or smoking - because it&#039;s not our body we have to be more strict with it. Meanwhile the passage - although saying this - does not address either of those issues either. And vs. 12 in this same chapter contains an interesting tidbit (&#039;All things are lawful for me&#039; - said 2 times by Paul). I think Paul is saying all things can be done by my body but that doesn&#039;t mean it is always helpful. 

What I am addressing is the piecemeal cut-ups of scripture from various places to make a uniifed whole doctrinal idea - I think there is some mis-placed value by doing this...I think at the least it should be questioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is only one problem with taking pieces of scripture from various whole texts in the bible &#8211; context. </p>
<p>I am reading a few lines from the 3 scripture pieces you supplied and you are a making a doctrinal stand based on them &#8211; ownership of the body. I almost wonder if there is a slight betrayal in doing that &#8211; to context of the books/letters of which the verese truly apply to?</p>
<p>The reason I bring this up is because I am looking mainly at the last one &#8211; from 1 Corinthians and it seems you are making a leap in a way to say &#8216;our bodies are not our own&#8217;. Paul seems to be addressing the simple idea of &#8216;flee immorality&#8217; or don&#8217;t use your body for that purpose. I would say if anything &#8211; we are sharing ownership with God &#8211; responsiblity seems to fall on &#8216;us&#8217; to &#8216;flee immorality&#8217; in partnership with God (But the one who JOINS himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him) &#8211; I think God has given us the body as a gift (or life). </p>
<p>Even more odd, Paul never addresses the abortion aspect in the whole of 1 Cor 6 as part of the &#8216;immorailty&#8217; he is railing against&#8230;we have to paste that in if anything &#8211; even murder isn&#8217;t mentioned &#8211; it seems there was problems with adultery, fraud, and other problems in vs. 9. I am thinking Paul might have addressed abortion if it existed &#8211; however he does not address it. </p>
<p>The real problem with making this statement &#8216;Our bodies are not our own?&#8217; in regards to 1 Cor 6 is it can be used for about anything one chooses. I have heard this also used in regards to liking something too much or smoking &#8211; because it&#8217;s not our body we have to be more strict with it. Meanwhile the passage &#8211; although saying this &#8211; does not address either of those issues either. And vs. 12 in this same chapter contains an interesting tidbit (&#8216;All things are lawful for me&#8217; &#8211; said 2 times by Paul). I think Paul is saying all things can be done by my body but that doesn&#8217;t mean it is always helpful. </p>
<p>What I am addressing is the piecemeal cut-ups of scripture from various places to make a uniifed whole doctrinal idea &#8211; I think there is some mis-placed value by doing this&#8230;I think at the least it should be questioned.</p>
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